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The American Iron Front Collaboration Discord
Resources / countermeasures
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Skullmaggot 1/16/2023 5:40 PM
@floppunism [BOI, ID] here you go
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joe hill’s revenge 1/16/2023 5:50 PM
What’s this for (edited)
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I believe it's for posting stuff from fascist channels and discussing ways to specifically counteract what they post
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New chant for when fashies protest library readings: Y'ALL ARE JUST MAD BECAUSE YOU CAN'T READ
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AIF Cuirassier regiment 1/18/2023 2:55 PM
perfect
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joe hill’s revenge
What’s this for (edited)
Skullmaggot 1/20/2023 5:18 PM
floppunism: “could we have a “countermeasures” channel specifically dedicated to discussion of counteracting fascist action and rhetoric?”
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Skullmaggot
floppunism: “could we have a “countermeasures” channel specifically dedicated to discussion of counteracting fascist action and rhetoric?”
Hell yea
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floppunism [BOI, ID] 3/23/2023 11:58 PM
One thing we should consider is the fear that racially-based rhetoric brings into those who agree with it. They’re afraid of their race being destroyed, or at least are on the surface, so that’s something we should either take advantage of or try to alleviate. If we take advantage of it, it can have a crushing moral effect when done properly, but it can also make them lash out like a cornered animal.
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floppunism [BOI, ID]
One thing we should consider is the fear that racially-based rhetoric brings into those who agree with it. They’re afraid of their race being destroyed, or at least are on the surface, so that’s something we should either take advantage of or try to alleviate. If we take advantage of it, it can have a crushing moral effect when done properly, but it can also make them lash out like a cornered animal.
Allegedly Human 3/24/2023 9:36 AM
The big issue I have with touching on someone's bigotry can negatively affect the safety of those targeted by the bigot.
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Allegedly Human
The big issue I have with touching on someone's bigotry can negatively affect the safety of those targeted by the bigot.
joe hill’s revenge 3/24/2023 1:00 PM
Mfers shoot up schools and shit cause of that fear
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Allegedly Human
The big issue I have with touching on someone's bigotry can negatively affect the safety of those targeted by the bigot.
floppunism [BOI, ID] 3/24/2023 1:51 PM
Exactly, see the Buffalo supermarket shooting. That's why I added in the caveat at the end.
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Allegedly Human 3/24/2023 1:52 PM
I saw that, I wanted to expand on it 😊
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Allegedly Human 3/24/2023 3:10 PM
@floppunism [BOI, ID] after chewing on it, a few anecdotal stories can demonstrate the negatives when it goes wrong, from interfering in an abusive relationship to angering a dangerous person without effective defense for their intended target
3:16 PM
Basically making a case for focusing on equity for the targeted over righteous punishment on the far right (I still want to see accountability where it's due, but the system needs a-changing)
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floppunism [BOI, ID]
One thing we should consider is the fear that racially-based rhetoric brings into those who agree with it. They’re afraid of their race being destroyed, or at least are on the surface, so that’s something we should either take advantage of or try to alleviate. If we take advantage of it, it can have a crushing moral effect when done properly, but it can also make them lash out like a cornered animal.
DevilTheAutopoet 4/4/2023 3:19 PM
I think one of the best ways of counteracting the racialized rhetoric of the right is actually to seek a balkanization of race in the same way that a lot of the Tumblr-born kiddie bopper queers have done with sexuality and gender identity. If we encourage people to look to their immediate roots, as Scotch-Irish, as Cajun, as Tejano, as 48ers, or whatever else, we can degrade race to the point of meaninglessness and dissolve the colonialist concepts of race that people to this day tend to focus on. And also, the reason I gave the examples I did speaks to another aspect of this strategy. Those identities I listed are all uniquely American. I wouldn't recommend encouraging people to identify as "German". A) If you're here, and certainly if you speak English, you're not German, and B) I feel like that could invite... other problems. But by focusing on recent history and the identities that spawned from the conditions of American life, we can simultaneously encourage solidarity on the basis that these are all American identities with a lot of shared history and culture. It allows to point out how stupid it is that we divide ourselves based on where our ancestors crossed the sea from hundreds of years ago, when there are truly American-born identities and cultures that come from uniquely American ways of life we can take part in and share with each other instead.
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floppunism [BOI, ID] 4/4/2023 3:20 PM
with all due respect Devil, have you considered going into some sort of career in writing? (edited)
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floppunism [BOI, ID]
with all due respect Devil, have you considered going into some sort of career in writing? (edited)
DevilTheAutopoet 4/4/2023 3:20 PM
Yes.
3:20 PM
That actually was my goal for a long time.
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floppunism [BOI, ID] 4/4/2023 3:21 PM
i can see that 🤣
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DevilTheAutopoet 4/4/2023 3:22 PM
Even now I struggle with the question of what I want to do with my life because in many ways the life of an academic would suit me very well. But also... I don't wanna become the anarchist Marat. I don't wanna sit in an ivory tower penning essays prolifically and opining constantly about all the things the people actually on the ground doing shit are doing wrong. I want to be one of the people on the ground.
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DevilTheAutopoet
Even now I struggle with the question of what I want to do with my life because in many ways the life of an academic would suit me very well. But also... I don't wanna become the anarchist Marat. I don't wanna sit in an ivory tower penning essays prolifically and opining constantly about all the things the people actually on the ground doing shit are doing wrong. I want to be one of the people on the ground.
RebelKitty 4/4/2023 3:28 PM
I feel this. I published a book and got to where I was making money writing what I wanted, but it starts to get... "hollow" feeling. All I could do was write things people thought sounded nice, but was it so nice they'd actually do anything different in their lives? No. Figured from there writing is a powerful accessory but just another part of the kit. It also takes real sweat, spoken word, and action to shift things in a more kinetic direction.
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People try to tell American Nazis all the time that Europeans don't view themselves as a single united "White race" and that there are genetic differences between Europeans... They usually just ignore it or say "well we're all mixes of different types of European in America so it's pointless to do anything other than unite as a White race, because we are closer to each other than we are to other races and we are distinct from the other races" (edited)
4:14 PM
Promoting a diverse but unified, singular American national identity is very important either way
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knuckles
People try to tell American Nazis all the time that Europeans don't view themselves as a single united "White race" and that there are genetic differences between Europeans... They usually just ignore it or say "well we're all mixes of different types of European in America so it's pointless to do anything other than unite as a White race, because we are closer to each other than we are to other races and we are distinct from the other races" (edited)
DevilTheAutopoet 4/4/2023 4:33 PM
The simple response to that would be that a Scotch-Irish American and a Cajun American have a lot more in common than the Scotch-Irish American does with a Northern Irish person from Belfast. Even in their very counterargument they're admitting that our conditions of life that we share as Americans ultimately matters far more than where our ancestors came from 250-400 years ago. (edited)
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Just a note: Sometimes the argument about making race meaningless or having no recognition of race can tred on groups who value their race in positive ways. Think fist nation and indigenous peoples, people of color, Latino, etc. In my experiences with POC activists, it can be seen as diminishing their experiences as black and brown people and invalidating. It's a path to tread thoughtfully, as not to alienate allies. It's so frequently tied to cultural backgrounds as well, and how we get the "Jewish race", even though that's not really a thing. Jewish people have ties to their religion and culture (which can vary widely, obviously), but it's equally silly to say there's a Muslim or Christian race. (edited)
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2:05 PM
I'm just pointing out that racial equity and justice doesn't necessarily mean the elimination of the concept (even though race is sort of made up anyhow), but rather a recognition of cultural identity that is often tied in with it. (edited)
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floppunism [BOI, ID] 4/10/2023 2:11 PM
Colorblindness allows for equality but not equity, and what we want is equity.
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floppunism [BOI, ID] 4/10/2023 4:18 PM
One thing I’ve done that really pisses rightists off is just saying “you’re weird” or something similar
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floppunism [BOI, ID]
One thing I’ve done that really pisses rightists off is just saying “you’re weird” or something similar
AvoidOblivion 4/10/2023 4:29 PM
Calling them weird is a way to make them feel different. It makes them feel like they don’t belong in their own group, as if there is something wrong with them. Right-wingers hate things that are different. It makes sense that calling them different will piss them off.
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Not responding and never breaking eye contact is a great way to mess with them too. Never speak, never show outright aggression, just unwavering eye contact. You can try with a friend sometime to practice and see just how unnerving it is :D It's even more effective in a group.
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7:24 PM
Imagine a dozen people just staring right at you in the eyes. Nobody says anything. Nobody finches or makes threatening gestures. No taunts. No responses to debate or insults. Just aggressive glaring. Non stop.
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Thats how I go about it. If there's going to be a fight there's no point in me running my mouth. Stay quiet and alert, hard stare
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LouisiAnarchist 5/22/2023 12:51 PM
Has anyone thought about figuring a way to use game cameras like this at places where people frequently sticker their fascist propaganda, If someone is good enough at this you can even get an alert every time it's set off and it will give you the visual feed straight to your phone.
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LouisiAnarchist
Has anyone thought about figuring a way to use game cameras like this at places where people frequently sticker their fascist propaganda, If someone is good enough at this you can even get an alert every time it's set off and it will give you the visual feed straight to your phone.
i have now!
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LouisiAnarchist
Has anyone thought about figuring a way to use game cameras like this at places where people frequently sticker their fascist propaganda, If someone is good enough at this you can even get an alert every time it's set off and it will give you the visual feed straight to your phone.
I thought about using cameras, but didn't know about these types of em
7:16 PM
That's camouflaged very well
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knuckles
I thought about using cameras, but didn't know about these types of em
LouisiAnarchist 5/25/2023 1:35 PM
The remote ones like this are really useful, they just need good concealment. You can basically surviell an area for a long time if you know there's frequent activity.
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LouisiAnarchist
The remote ones like this are really useful, they just need good concealment. You can basically surviell an area for a long time if you know there's frequent activity.
Blahaj Blaster 6/19/2023 6:03 AM
Can you set it up only for certain times? I imagine during the day having a lot of foot traffic go by could be annoying
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LouisiAnarchist 6/19/2023 8:48 AM
Oh absolutely many of them are very versatile that way @Blahaj Blaster
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Braakinthesaddle 6/19/2023 3:16 PM
One potential fly in this ointment is the massive amount of surveillance that already happens in places with high foot traffic. It's easy to set up game cameras in the woods, but setting them up in a city, in such a manner that no one, specifically LEOs, question what you're doing is trickier.
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Braakinthesaddle
One potential fly in this ointment is the massive amount of surveillance that already happens in places with high foot traffic. It's easy to set up game cameras in the woods, but setting them up in a city, in such a manner that no one, specifically LEOs, question what you're doing is trickier.
joe hill’s revenge 6/19/2023 8:41 PM
Late at night
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DevilTheAutopoet
Even now I struggle with the question of what I want to do with my life because in many ways the life of an academic would suit me very well. But also... I don't wanna become the anarchist Marat. I don't wanna sit in an ivory tower penning essays prolifically and opining constantly about all the things the people actually on the ground doing shit are doing wrong. I want to be one of the people on the ground.
Why not both? Get your education and be on the ground.
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An event I'm looking to go to is likely to be targeted by Nazis. Any suggestions for making it more difficult for them or causing them trouble?
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Emily
An event I'm looking to go to is likely to be targeted by Nazis. Any suggestions for making it more difficult for them or causing them trouble?
DeepSouth [ATL, GA] 8/7/2023 1:08 PM
Ma Deuce
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DeepSouth [ATL, GA]
Ma Deuce
How about legal ways?
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Emily
How about legal ways?
AvoidOblivion 8/7/2023 1:17 PM
Buy a megaphone if you want to save your voice, or just yell, and speak over them or give it to someone else to have them speak over them. Grab a camera and video them, getting in front of them, showing however much of their faces they aren't hiding, and record their voice if possible. Let them know they aren't welcome in your city. If you have pepper spray or mace, bring it with you. Don't show fear and don't back down. You can also protest in front of them and block them out. They want to be seen, so if you hide them, it'll take that away. This is what the megaphone does: it amplifies your group's voice while drowning out the voice of hatred. Edited to correct a word. (edited)
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DeepSouth [ATL, GA] 8/7/2023 1:19 PM
None of my advice is legal.
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Thanks. Those are all good ideas. I think the event is being hosted by an inclusive church that has a portable sound system. We've got some concerns about use of force by them, but hopefully nothing happens. The group we're worried about showing up showed up armed with rifles to a pride event nearby recently. (edited)
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Emily
Thanks. Those are all good ideas. I think the event is being hosted by an inclusive church that has a portable sound system. We've got some concerns about use of force by them, but hopefully nothing happens. The group we're worried about showing up showed up armed with rifles to a pride event nearby recently. (edited)
AvoidOblivion 8/7/2023 2:52 PM
If the church is comfortable with it, try to find a local pro-LGBTQ+ group that is armed that can arrive to act as security. The notion that LGBTQ+ people and POC are armed to defend themselves is terrifying to bigots.
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AvoidOblivion
If the church is comfortable with it, try to find a local pro-LGBTQ+ group that is armed that can arrive to act as security. The notion that LGBTQ+ people and POC are armed to defend themselves is terrifying to bigots.
That's already settled actually for security, no trouble there.
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Emily
That's already settled actually for security, no trouble there.
AvoidOblivion 8/7/2023 2:54 PM
That's good to hear.
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Emily
How about legal ways?
str8 up demon 8/8/2023 8:50 AM
when you record them find the cars and get those too but NOT alone
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Yeah, I don't think anyone is planning on being off on their own if those fuckers do end up showing up. We're prepared for if start to try to assault people, but we certainly don't want to make it easier for them.
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str8 up demon 8/8/2023 2:59 PM
make sure you get their cars (edited)
2:59 PM
its the one thing they cant hide
2:59 PM
from there we can do OSINT and get names
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They flaked, thankfully. Just ended up turning into a nice night of camaraderie. Only moments we thought we had trouble turned out to just be people acting a little sus but turning out to be fine, just a bit over the top (like the folks that showed up in all black block on a pickup truck around the back of the place.
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str8 up demon 8/9/2023 3:17 PM
sweet
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DeepSouth [ATL, GA]
None of my advice is legal.
Frederick Piratin 8/25/2023 2:05 AM
Yeah, it's probably for the best to avoid it then. Not just to avoid fedposting, but unless it's a specific context it can be counter-productive.
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